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Mark: "Yeah. I sing them to myself all the time. No. I like them for a long time. The first song that started out tonight, '[[Kathleen]]'; I like that song an awful lot. I like all the songs we did tonight, except for '[[Bad Liquor]]'. We shouldn't have done that. It doesn't fit in with the rest of the set. It's the song that chases away the devil. We try to fuck that song up as much as we can on stage to make us feel real loose. But we didn't fuck it up tonight as much as we usually do."  
Mark: "Yeah. I sing them to myself all the time. No. I like them for a long time. The first song that started out tonight, '[[Kathleen]]'; I like that song an awful lot. I like all the songs we did tonight, except for '[[Bad Liquor]]'. We shouldn't have done that. It doesn't fit in with the rest of the set. It's the song that chases away the devil. We try to fuck that song up as much as we can on stage to make us feel real loose. But we didn't fuck it up tonight as much as we usually do."  


  Unhinged: "So why do you leave it so late in the set?"  
Unhinged: "So why do you leave it so late in the set?"  


  Mark: "We weren't even going to do it this time, but I just said 'Let's do Bad Liquor' and get off this stage.' And then  
Mark: "We weren't even going to do it this time, but I just said 'Let's do [[Bad Liquor]] and get off this stage,' and then we didn't."  
  we didn't."  


  Unhinged: "When you're putting a song together, what comes first?"  
Unhinged: "When you're putting a song together, what comes first?"  


  Mark: "I hear this is a bad way to write songs. Sometimes it's the words. Sometimes I'm fooling around with the chords  
Mark: "I hear this is a bad way to write songs. Sometimes it's the words. Sometimes I'm fooling around with the chords and the first words that come in my mind with a melody. I'm a plodding person. Not like an innovator."  
  and the first words that come in my mind with a melody. I'm a plodding person. Not like an innovator."  


  Unhinged: "Do you take words you've written from lot's of places and fit them together in a song?"  
Unhinged: "Do you take words you've written from lots of places and fit them together in a song?"  


  Mark: "Uh uh,I usually have particular ideas for each song and I write pages and pages for the one song and then edit  
Mark: "Uh uh, I usually have particular ideas for each song and I write pages and pages for the one song and then edit it or just see what works or doesn't work in the context of the song. Then I'll takes those verses and rewrite those again. Then every time I play it I'll sing new words."  
  it or just see what works or doesn't work in the context of the song. Then I'll takes those verses and rewrite those again.  
  Then everytime I play it I'll sing new words."  


  Unhinged:  "You don't feel like the words that come out first are the only way you're going to get what you're trying  
Unhinged:  "You don't feel like the words that come out first are the only way you're going to get what you're trying to say out?"  
  to say out?"  


  Mark: "Usually.Sometimes it's the first words. Yeah. I remember about 'Room above the club'. Everytime I sing the
Mark: "Usually. Sometimes it's the first words. Yeah. I remember about '[[Room Above The Club]]'. Every time I sing the song, I think of the moment I thought of writing the song and that was outside a place called the Sound of Music and this whore walked by and this guy goes, 'Hey baby, I need myself a good woman,' and she says, 'If you wanna abuse me you gotta pay me money, fucker!' And that's why I wrote the song."  
  song, I think of the moment I though of writing the song and that was outside a place called the Sound of Music and this  
  whore walked by and this guy goes 'Hey baby,I need myself a good woman' and she says 'If you wanna abuse me you  
  gotta pay me money, fucker!' And that's why I wrote the song."  


  At this point we moved out of the club and restarted the interview with Mark and Danny.But the microphone decided  
At this point we moved out of the club and restarted the interview with Mark and Danny. But the microphone decided this was the time when it wanted to play up, in effect abrogating the powers of editing to itself.  
  this was the time when it wanted to play up,in effect abrogating the poers of editing to itself.
  In transcribing the next section, I have tried to overide that editing, but the conversation fades in and out and the sense
  of what was said may have been turned completely around by the inability to hear the occasional crucial word.  


  Unhinged:  "Take the songs in your notebook here,where are they coming from?"
In transcribing the next section, I have tried to override that editing, but the conversation fades in and out and the sense of what was said may have been turned completely around by the inability to hear the occasional crucial word.


  Mark: "Sometimes it's just the first two lines. Here 'We'll waste a 1000 years sitting round the kitchen table/Watching
Unhinged: "Take the songs in your notebook here, where are they coming from?"  
  the brandy turn into beer/And we can't get out even though we're able'. Stupid line, but there really was a night out
  when we started drinking brandy and then we got the beer out and drank all that up....It's just about....The other song
  here - these are all new songs -is watching someone sleeping and saying 'When we're asleep/They're going to bury us in
  peace'.It's about watching someone comatose after a week."  


  Unhinged: "Do you always write from what has happened?"  
Mark: "Sometimes it's just the first two lines. Here - 'We'll waste a thousand years sitting round the kitchen table/Watching the brandy turn into beer/And we can't get out even though we're able'. Stupid line, but there really was a night out when we started drinking brandy and then we got the beer out and drank all that up....It's just about....The other song here - these are all new songs - is watching someone sleeping and saying 'When we're asleep/They're going to bury us in peace'. It's about watching someone comatose after a week."  


  Mark:  "Oh yeah,they're all true stories"  
Unhinged:  "Do you always write from what has happened?"  


  Danny:  "The names have been changed to protect the innocent."  
Mark:  "Oh yeah, they're all true stories"  


  Mark:  "And sometimes not."  
Danny:  "The names have been changed to protect the innocent."  


  Unhinged: "So what are the stories in the songs on 'California'?"  
Mark: "And sometimes not."  


  Mark: "Some of the group won't see it like that,but it's about Columbus,Ohio.There's a good story about that.I used to
Unhinged: "So what are the stories in the songs on ''[[California]]''?"  
  live there for three years and once I was a hitcher and I got a lift in this car with two coastguards and they were from
  New Orleans, driver and chick drinking....(fades)....and I was getting real scared,so I got out and I was waiting for a bus
  and ....(fades)....head fucked up....(fades)....no names....(fades)....so that's about emotion because you know they're
  all true stories,because the moment is the truth,the song is rubbish so it's all from memory."  


  Unhinged: "'Somewhere' made sense to me coming from a small town, it's not depressing, just another Friday night
Mark: "Some of the group won't see it like that, but it's about Columbus, Ohio. There's a good story about that. I used to live there for three years and once I was a hitcher and I got a lift in this car with two coastguards and they were from New Orleans, driver and chick drinking....(fades)....and I was getting real scared, so I got out and I was waiting for a bus and ....(fades)....head fucked up....(fades)....no names....(fades)....so that's about emotion because you know they're all true stories, because the moment is the truth, the song is rubbish so it's all from memory."
  with nothing happening."  


  Mark: "Yeah,right.All you can do is wait around. Jenny is a true story about somebody.She was at a party and
Unhinged: "'[[Somewhere]]' made sense to me coming from a small town, it's not depressing, just another Friday night with nothing happening."
  everyone was wearing black and all these guys were picking up on her and necking, so she said "Ok' and they were
  drunk and she was confused and by the end of the party.....I knew where she was coming from,but I wasn't anything to
  do with her.I was just going to write her song.
  'Highway 5', that's a really crass song. It's pretty obscure what that's about.'Pale Skinny Girl' is hard to work out.It's  
  about stopping for gas in South Carolina next to this marine army base and then this little girl came out of a triangle
  of furniture to buy some coke and she looked like Ophelia at the bottom of the water, drowned, pale and dead."  


  Unhinged: "How does a triangle come into it?"  
Mark: "Yeah, right. All you can do is wait around. '[[Jenny]]' is a true story about somebody. She was at a party and everyone was wearing black and all these guys were picking up on her and necking, so she said 'Ok' and they were drunk and she was confused and by the end of the party.....I knew where she was coming from, but I wasn't anything to do with her. I was just going to write her song. '[[Highway 5]]', that's a really crass song. It's pretty obscure what that's about. '[[Pale Skinny Girl]]' is hard to work out. It's about stopping for gas in South Carolina next to this Marine army base and then this little girl came out of a triangle of furniture to buy some coke and she looked like Ophelia at the bottom of the water, drowned, pale and dead."  


  Mark: "That was where she worked as a secretary. She has long blonde hair and there were flags flapping.It was October
Unhinged: "How does a triangle come into it?"  
  and there was this haze.It was romantic and I wrote this thing. She was at the bottom of the lake in a mermaid cave and
  swam around. She was like an albino fish,never ate daylight. Of course,I didn't say that in the song because the song was
  flawed.I should have said 'albino fish'. If we'd been Thin White Rope, I could have written a song about albino fish.She
  is an albino mermaid,clever and cool,but I'm not clever and cool."  


  Unhinged: "Is the song about trying to be cool?"  
Mark: "That was where she worked as a secretary. She has long blonde hair and there were flags flapping. It was October and there was this haze. It was romantic and I wrote this thing. She was at the bottom of the lake in a mermaid cave and swam around. She was like an albino fish, never ate daylight. Of course, I didn't say that in the song because the song was flawed. I should have said 'albino fish'. If we'd been Thin White Rope, I could have written a song about albino fish. She is an albino mermaid, clever and cool, but I'm not clever and cool."  


  Mark: "I'm not accusing anybody of trying to be cool. Hey! Look ay my new Doctor Martins - desperately trying to be
Unhinged: "Is the song about trying to be cool?"  
  cool.Check out my black jeans, are they cool or what?"  


  Unhinged: "While we're talking about clothes,what about 'Blue and Grey Shirt'?"  
Mark: "I'm not accusing anybody of trying to be cool. Hey! Look ay my new Doctor Marten's - desperately trying to be cool. Check out my black jeans, are they cool or what?"  


  Mark: "That was written about the colours of the dawn when I was sitting around waiting for Bill to show up, about the
Unhinged: "While we're talking about clothes, what about '[[Blue And Grey Shirt]]'?"  
  grass and the trees and no drugs, NO DRUGS - the ground was shaking and then when the sun was up..."  


  Unhinged: "Where was that?"  
Mark: "That was written about the colours of the dawn when I was sitting around waiting for Bill to show up, about the grass and the trees and no drugs, NO DRUGS - the ground was shaking and then when the sun was up..."  


  Mark: "Columbus,Ohio.A lot of these songs were written when I was living there.I mean it takes long time for me to
Unhinged: "Where was that?"  
  get to topics sometimes.....(fades)....also I had this big, long hallucination .Remember the time I got really mad at Tom,
  Tom asked me if I had a pen - the one time we did this hideous record store on our first tour..."  


  Unhinged: "You played record stores?"  
Mark: "Columbus, Ohio. A lot of these songs were written when I was living there. I mean it takes long time for me to get to topics sometimes.....(fades)....also I had this big, long hallucination. Remember the time I got really mad at Tom, Tom asked me if I had a pen - the one time we did this hideous record store on our first tour..."  


  Mark: "The first tour was all record stores because we didn't get enough shows.Then I got mad at Tom for absolutely
Unhinged: "You played record stores?"  
  no reason. I had a nervous breakdown in the back of the van curled up in the foetal position and having hallucinations.
  One of them, all of them were about sin, one of them was like smashing at 1000 miles an hour throuh planes of glass,
  BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! The other one - actually I'm reading this book
  'Dark is the Dream' by Malcom Lowry and in the beginning he talks about - actually he calls his character Sidgebord
  Wilderness: cool - because Malcom Lowry was never really a writer; I like his stuff, it would be a cliche to say he wrote
  thinly veiled autobiography AND he wrote cliches a lot and his imagry is corny. This is a corny story.I'm trying to justify
  what I'm going to say - and the whole thing is about standing on a lip above a pit and being drawn inexorably down:
  not that it was Satanist or anything. All my life I've had these Satanist hesitations, these temptations and it's like being
  pulled down and down. I tried to resist, but it was too attractive,too inevitable. It was going to happen. It HAD to happen
  and watching the forest pass by the van on the side of the freeway and I had this feeling that I was about to go down,
  so I was going down.I went down and I was comong back up and almost getting there and finally after resisting that for
  about 45 minutes,I don't know,it probably wasn't that long, finally I said 'Let's do it.Fuck!'
  At that point, I realised there's certain things you can do to protect youself.....like smiling.But finally after this long
  time I fell down into this pit and EVERYTHING WAS EXACTLY THE SAME....the world was new..."  


  Danny: "And then we got to Columbus,Ohio."  
Mark: "The first tour was all record stores because we didn't get enough shows. Then I got mad at Tom for absolutely no reason. I had a nervous breakdown in the back of the van curled up in the fetal position and having hallucinations. One of them, all of them were about sin, one of them was like smashing at 1,000 miles an hour through planes of glass, BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! The other one - actually I'm reading this book ''Dark Is The Dream'' by Malcom Lowry and in the beginning he talks about - actually he calls his character Sidgebord Wilderness: cool - because Malcom Lowry was never really a writer; I like his stuff, it would be a cliche to say he wrote thinly veiled autobiography AND he wrote cliches a lot and his imagery is corny. This is a corny story. I'm trying to justify what I'm going to say - and the whole thing is about standing on a lip above a pit and being drawn inexorably down: not that it was Satanist or anything. All my life I've had these Satanist hesitations, these temptations and it's like being pulled down and down. I tried to resist, but it was too attractive, too inevitable. It was going to happen. It HAD to happen and watching the forest pass by the van on the side of the freeway and I had this feeling that I was about to go down, so I was going down. I went down and I was coming back up and almost getting there and finally after resisting that for about 45 minutes, I don't know, it probably wasn't that long, finally I said 'Let's do it. Fuck!' At that point, I realised there's certain things you can do to protect yourself.....like smiling. But finally after this long time I fell down into this pit and EVERYTHING WAS EXACTLY THE SAME....the world was new..."  


  Mark: "Yeah.Then we got to Columbus, but the world was,the world was, the world was covered in. It was weird. Like
Danny: "And then we got to Columbus, Ohio."  
  having an overdose. I've had many experiences like that.I don't even believe in them,not rationally...."  


  Unhinged: "I have a friend who once broke the neck of his Gibson SG because spirits came out of the guitar and
Mark: "Yeah. Then we got to Columbus, but the world was, the world was, the world was covered in...It was weird. Like having an overdose. I've had many experiences like that. I don't even believe in them, not rationally...."  
  attacked him."  


  Mark: "I've done that.Smashed guitars 2 or 3 times."  
Unhinged: "I have a friend who once broke the neck of his Gibson SG because spirits came out of the guitar and attacked him."  


  Unhinged: "I used to be able to shut down my thoughts completely and blank out those kinds of thoughts. But I can't
Mark: "I've done that. Smashed guitars 2 or 3 times."  
  do it anymore."  


  Mark: "It's harder, the older you get, you learn to distrust strange things....(fades)....Brad Johnson....(fades)....his
Unhinged: "I used to be able to shut down my thoughts completely and blank out those kinds of thoughts. But I can't do it anymore."  
  philosophy is....(fades)...."  


  Unhinged: ".....(fades)....a right and a wrong way to do it."  
Mark: "It's harder, the older you get, you learn to distrust strange things....(fades)....[[Brad Johnson]]....(fades)....his philosophy is....(fades)...."  


  Danny: "Maybe the songs just come out the way they are. Mark will write a song on acoustic guitar that can be
Unhinged: ".....(fades)....a right and a wrong way to do it."  
  interpreted forty thousand different ways by a guitar player in a rock band. Pretty much everyone injects their own
  personality. Everyone plays what they are gonna play no matter what. Everyone tries to tells everyone else what they
  should play to make the song good. Mark is the exception. Mark wants it sung like this and it never is, everyone goes
  their own way and that's what happens to him,"  


  Unhinged: "How much do you think about it?"  
Danny: "Maybe the songs just come out the way they are. Mark will write a song on acoustic guitar that can be interpreted forty thousand different ways by a guitar player in a rock band. Pretty much everyone injects their own personality. Everyone plays what they are gonna play no matter what. Everyone tries to tells everyone else what they should play to make the song good. Mark is the exception. Mark wants it sung like this and it never is, everyone goes their own way and that's what happens to him,"  


  Danny: "Everyone thinks about it. I mean I think about a song all of the time."  
Unhinged: "How much do you think about it?"  


  Unhinged: "In terms of how you're going to play it."  
Danny: "Everyone thinks about it. I mean I think about a song all of the time."  


  Danny: "You're inclined to trip on a lot. I'm always inclined to do it the way Mark wants it in the first place and do  
Unhinged: "In terms of how you're going to play it."
  the song really quietly. Later on it gets more gruesome as it goes on.
 
Danny: "You're inclined to trip on a lot. I'm always inclined to do it the way Mark wants it in the first place and do the song really quietly. Later on it gets more gruesome as it goes on."
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